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	<title>K-Squared Ramblings &#187; IE8</title>
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		<title>Upgrading the Web: IE8 Released</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2009/03/20/ie8-released/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2009/03/20/ie8-released/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[browser]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[chrome]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Firefox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE6]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Opera]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/?p=3894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Microsoft released Internet Explorer 8 yesterday, for Windows XP and Vista.  So if you&#8217;re still running IE6 it&#8217;s once again time to think about upgrading.  (Assuming, of course, that you&#8217;re not locked in by corporate policy or another piece of software.)
IE6 is now two versions behind the current release.
IE6 is almost 8 years [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/"><img class="alignright" alt="Internet Explorer." border="0"  src="http://www.hyperborea.org/images/cs/ie7_60h.png" width="60" height="60" /></a>Microsoft released <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/"><strong>Internet Explorer 8</strong></a> yesterday, for Windows XP and Vista.  So if you&#8217;re still running IE6 it&#8217;s once again <strong>time to think about upgrading</strong>.  (Assuming, of course, that you&#8217;re not locked in by corporate policy or another piece of software.)</p>
<p>IE6 is now two versions behind the current release.</p>
<p>IE6 is almost 8 years old (it was released in 2001).</p>
<p>IE6 is lacking in many capabilities that all other modern web browsers have, in web technology, in security, and in features you can use.</p>
<p>You can read <a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/03/first-look-inte/">a review at Wired</a>, a <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/03/19/internet-explorer-8-final-available-now.aspx">write-up from the IE team</a>, or a <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/2009/03/20/ie8-has-arrived/">summary of technical changes from <abbr title="The Web Standards Project">WaSP</abbr></a>.</p>
<p>Of course, Internet Explorer <strong>isn&#8217;t the only option</strong> out there.  There&#8217;s <a href="http://getfirefox.com/"><strong>Firefox</strong></a>, <a href="http://my.opera.com/community/download.pl?ref=Kelson&#038;p=opera_desktop"><strong>Opera</strong></a>, <a href="http://www.google.com/chrome/"><strong>Chrome</strong></a> and a host of other <a href="http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/">alternative browsers</a> that are worth checking out.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re still running Windows 2000 or some other old version of Windows that can&#8217;t run IE7 or IE8, I&#8217;d absolutely recommend Firefox or Opera.  Either will be much better than IE6, both will run on Windows 2000, and Opera will even run on Windows Me and Windows 98 (but you really ought to move to something more current than Windows Me.)</p>
<p align="center"><a title="Get Opera" href="http://my.opera.com/community/download.pl?ref=Kelson&#038;p=opera_desktop"><img class="icon" src="http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/images/icons/opera.gif" alt="[Opera Logo]" width="60" height="60" /></a> <a title="Get Google Chrome" href="http://www.google.com/chrome"><img class="icon" src="http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/images/icons/chrome.jpg" alt="[Chrome Logo]" width="60" height="60" /></a> <a title="Get Firefox" href="http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/"><img class="icon" src="http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/images/icons/firefox.png" alt="[Firefox Logo]" width="60" height="60" /></a></p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Installing IE8 RC1 &#8212; Or Trying</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2009/01/27/ie8-rc1-crash/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2009/01/27/ie8-rc1-crash/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Computers/Internet]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crash]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Tweets]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Windows]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2009/01/27/line-items-for-2009-01-27/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Installed IE8 RC1. Installer crashed, and I ended up with IE7&#8230;even though I&#8217;d been running the IE8 beta before. #
IE8 installer crashes system. New HW checks out. Bad RAM may have screwed something up before I replaced it. Time for System Restore. *grr* #
Wow, System Restore is taking a lot longer this time. Maybe it&#8217;s [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<ul class="aktt_tweet_digest">
<li>Installed IE8 RC1. Installer crashed, and I ended up with IE7&#8230;even though I&#8217;d been running the IE8 beta before. <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1152550800" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
<li>IE8 installer crashes system. New HW checks out. Bad RAM may have screwed something up before I replaced it. Time for System Restore. *grr* <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1152999780" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
<li>Wow, System Restore is taking a lot longer this time. Maybe it&#8217;s actually working? (Or maybe safe mode just makes it slower?) <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1153523365" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
<li>I can&#8217;t remember how many times I&#8217;ve rebooted this computer today. (And no, safe mode didn&#8217;t solve it) <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1153594966" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
<li>Finally got IE8 RC1 installed by telling it not to install updates immediately. The Malicious Software Scan was crashing the system. WTF? <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1153790853" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
<li>Now that I&#8217;ve FINALLY got IE8 RC1 running, a cursory check of websites I maintain shows no glaring problems. *whew!* <a href="http://twitter.com/KelsonV/statuses/1153930822" class="aktt_tweet_time">#</a></li>
</ul>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Improving Browser Reliability</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/07/31/improving-browser-reliability/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/07/31/improving-browser-reliability/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[browser]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[crash]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[programming]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wordpress]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/?p=2674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The IEBlog recently posted about their efforts to improve reliability in Internet Explorer 8, particularly the idea of &#8220;loosely-coupled IE&#8221; (or LCIE).  The short explanation is that each tab runs in its own process, so if a web page causes the browser to crash, only that tab crashes &#8212; not the whole thing.  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The IEBlog recently posted about their efforts to <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/28/ie8-and-reliability.aspx">improve reliability in Internet Explorer 8</a>, particularly the idea of &#8220;loosely-coupled IE&#8221; (or LCIE).  The short explanation is that each tab runs in its own process, so if a web page causes the browser to crash, <strong>only that tab crashes &#8212; not the whole thing</strong>.  (It is a bit more complicated, but that&#8217;s the principle.)  Combine that with session recovery (load with the same set of web pages, if possible with the form data you hadn&#8217;t quite finished typing in), and you massively reduce the pain of browser crashes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see something like this picked up by Firefox and Opera as well.  They both have crash recovery already, but it still means restoring the <em>entire</em> session.  If you have 20 tabs open, it&#8217;s great that you don&#8217;t have to hunt them down again.  But it also means you have to wait for 20 pages to load simultaneously.  It would be much nicer to only have to wait for one (or, if I read the IE8 article correctly, three).</p>
<p><b>Edited to add:</b></p>
<p>On a related note, I&#8217;ve run into an interesting <strong>conflict between crash recovery and <a href="http://wordpress.org/">WordPress&#8217;</a> auto-save</strong> feature.  If you start a new post, WordPress will automatically save it as a draft.  If the browser crashes, it will bring up the new-post page, but restore most of the form data you filled in.  So the title, the text of your post, etc will all be there.  But WordPress will see it as a new post, and you&#8217;ll end up with a duplicate.</p>
<p>This wasn&#8217;t a major problem when I encountered it &#8212; I had to reset the categories, tags, and post slug after I hit publish (since I hadn&#8217;t noticed that they&#8217;d been reset to defaults), and I just deleted the older, partial version of the post &#8212; but I can imagine if I&#8217;d uploaded an image gallery, I would have been rather annoyed, since there&#8217;s no way (that I&#8217;ve noticed) to move images from one post to another.  Reuse them, sure, but not such that the gallery feature would work.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Summer of the Browser</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/06/05/upcoming-browsers/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/06/05/upcoming-browsers/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 00:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[browser]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Firefox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[flock]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[links]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Opera]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/?p=2495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Firefox:  The new release candidate Firefox 3 RC2 is out.  No date yet on the official launch, but they&#8217;re still saying June.  Also, developers are starting to talk work that&#8217;s gone into what will become Firefox 3.1, such as completing CSS3 selectors support.
Opera: A new Opera 9.5 preview came out today, showcasing [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Firefox:</strong>  The new release candidate <a href="http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2008/06/04/second-firefox-3-release-candidate-now-available-for-download/">Firefox 3 RC2 is out</a>.  No date yet on the official launch, but they&#8217;re still saying June.  Also, developers are starting to talk work that&#8217;s gone into what will become Firefox 3.1, such as <a href="http://www.css3.info/firefox-31-is-the-latest-to-pass-our-selectors-test/">completing CSS3 selectors support</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Opera:</strong> A <a href="http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/06/05/looking-sharp">new Opera 9.5 preview</a> came out today, showcasing the browser&#8217;s <a href="http://operawatch.com/news/2008/06/the-emperors-new-clothes.html">new look</a>.  Also, the Opera Core team takes a look at what you can do if you put <a href="http://my.opera.com/core/blog/2008/06/05/engineering-seminar">hardware acceleration on the whole browser</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Internet Explorer:</strong> <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/06/03/ie8-beta-2-coming-in-august.aspx">IE8 beta 2 is scheduled for August</a>.  I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing what they&#8217;ve done, and figure I&#8217;ll start updating sites to accommodate changes.  I <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/05/ie8-b1/">held off</a> changing too much when IE8b1 came out, because some of the differences were obviously bugs (triggering the <a href="http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CaioHack">Caio Hack</a>, for instance; and yes, I reported it).</p>
<p><strong>Flock</strong> has been moving ahead with small, rapid releases, adding integration for new services each time.  They just <a href="http://www.flock.com/node/62337">added Digg and Pownce in Flock 1.2</a> a few days ago.  Now they&#8217;re getting ready to start on Flock 2.0, which will merge in all the new capabilities of Firefox 3.  That means it&#8217;ll get new rendering capabilities, better memory management, probably EV certs and such.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Acid(2) Stare</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/19/acid2-eyes/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/19/acid2-eyes/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Web Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Acid2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Safari]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/19/acid2-eyes/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After looking at how Safari 3.1 handles the Acid2 test, and finding that under some circumstances/platforms it fails the test, I realized: that one line, with the eyes, has been the cause of most regressions in browsers that previously passed the test.
Rows 4-5 test fallback behavior for objects.  The idea is that if a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/"><img class="alignright" width="168" height="168" src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/acid2-reference.png' alt='Acid2 reference image.' title="Acid2 the way it's supposed to look" /></a>After looking at how Safari 3.1 handles the <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/">Acid2 test</a>, and finding that under some circumstances/platforms it fails the test, I realized: that one line, with the eyes, has been the cause of most regressions in browsers that previously passed the test.</p>
<p>Rows 4-5 test fallback behavior for objects.  The idea is that if a page tries to load an external resource, but can&#8217;t&#8212;the file is missing, the server&#8217;s down, the network&#8217;s slow, the browser doesn&#8217;t have the right plugin, etc.&#8212;the page can provide alternate content.  And it can be nested, so you can try, say, a video clip that falls back to an SVG image that falls back to a PNG that falls back to text.  <span id="more-2359"></span> The Acid2 guide goes into <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/guide/#row-4-5">more detail</a>, with the relevant section of code being this:</p>
<pre>&lt;object data="data:application/x-unknown,ERROR"&gt;
  &lt;object data="http://www.webstandards.org/404/" type="text/html"&gt;
    &lt;object type="image/png" data="data:image/png;..."&gt;ERROR&lt;/object&gt;
  &lt;/object&gt;
&lt;/object&gt;</pre>
<p>So it tries to load the first object, which is deliberately made unloadable.  Then it tries to load the second object, which calls out to a webpage which is <em>supposed</em> to be unavailable.  Then it falls back to the third object, which is an embedded image of the eyes.</p>
<p>The problems have been with the second object, the one hosted outside of the test file itself.</p>
<p>Back in December, when Microsoft announced that their internal builds of <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/12/19/internet-explorer-8-and-acid2-a-milestone.aspx">IE8 passed Acid2</a>, lots of people started checking it in the Firefox 3 beta, Safari, and Opera, browsers that were known to pass.  And they were surprised to find <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/19/fix-acid2/">it didn&#8217;t work</a>.  It turned out that the server config on www.webstandards.org had changed such that the file requested actually returned a page instead of an error, so browsers were properly loading that page instead of the eyes.  It was suggested that people use an alternate copy of the test that pointed to a different external resource.</p>
<p><img class="alignleft" width="168" height="168" src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/acid2-ie8b1-altsite.png' alt='Acid2 as rendered by IE8b1 on alternate sites.' title="Acid2 as rendered by IE8b1 when viewing an alternate copy of the test."/>Then when IE8 beta1 came out, people rushed to try it themselves.  By this time the server config had been fixed, so the official copy of the test worked again.  But people trying it on alternate copies ran into a problem, because it <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/05/why-isn-t-ie8-passing-acid2.aspx">tripped a cross-site security check</a> (IE8b1 would only load objects from the same domain) <em>and</em> IE8 wasn&#8217;t using the fallback content if it was blocked for security reasons.  (This makes absolutely no sense.  It&#8217;s like refusing to let someone board a plane if they trip a metal detector, instead of checking to make sure they didn&#8217;t miss a few coins and having them walk through again.  Add to that the fact that IE is perfectly happy to load images, iframes, Flash animations, etc. from other sites, and the restriction itself seems a bit silly.)</p>
<p><img class="alignright" width="168" height="168" src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/acid2-safari31-win.png' alt='Acid2 as rendered by Safari 3.1 on Windows' title="Acid2 as rendered by Safari 3.1 on Windows" />So now Safari 3.1 is out, and <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/18/safari-31/">has problems with exactly the same line</a>.  In my test on Windows, it displays this dithered orange band.  In my test on Mac OS, it looks like this for a few seconds, but continues to display the page-loading icon.  Then it finishes loading and displays the eyes, passing the test.  It looks like it&#8217;s just taking a couple of seconds to check that external resource before falling back to the alternative.</p>
<p>I just find it interesting that all of these come down to one single piece of the test, and it&#8217;s the piece that tries to load an external resource&#8212;something that isn&#8217;t within its own control.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
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		<item>
		<title>Webslices and Revisiting Microsummaries</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/13/webslices-and-microsummaries/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/13/webslices-and-microsummaries/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Web Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Firefox]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[html]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[microformats]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[webdev]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[webslices]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/13/webslices-and-microsummaries/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When the first Firefox 2 beta was released, I looked into Microsummaries, a feature that enables bookmarks to automatically update their titles with information.  I concluded they were useful, but not for anything I was doing.  The main application would be my Flash site, but it already had an RSS feed for updates, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the first Firefox 2 beta was released, I looked into <a href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/Microsummaries">Microsummaries</a>, a feature that enables bookmarks to automatically update their titles with information.  I <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2006/07/12/microsummaries/">concluded</a> they were useful, but not for anything I was doing.  The main application would be my <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/">Flash site</a>, but it already had an RSS feed for updates, and a microsummary could only really include the most recent item.</p>
<p>Now the first IE8 beta supports <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/webslices.mspx">Webslices</a>.  They&#8217;re similar in concept, but can include formatted data (not just plain text) and use microformat-like markup on the web page instead of a &lt;link&gt; element in the head.</p>
<p>I figured with two browsers supporting the concept, I&#8217;d give it a shot.  I adapted the script I use to generate the RSS feed so that it will also take everything on the most recent day and generate a text file, which is used for the Microsummary title.  For the Webslice, to start with I just marked up the &#8220;Latest Updates&#8221; section of the home page.  Since I haven&#8217;t installed IE8b1 at home, I&#8217;m using Daniel Glazman&#8217;s experimental <a href="http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2008/03/13/WebSlices-in-Firefox-6">Webchunks</a> extension for Firefox to try it out.  Unfortunately the extension doesn&#8217;t seem to resolve relative links in its current state.</p>
<p>The real question, of course, is whether either technology offers anything better than what feeds can do now.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll end up going the external-feed route for the Webslice as well, since it&#8217;ll use a lot less bandwidth than having a bunch of IE installations pulling the <em>entire home page</em> once a day.  Plus since I&#8217;m using SSI on that page, it doesn&#8217;t take advantage of conditional requests and caching, and a static file will.  But that&#8217;ll have to wait.  <i>Lost</i> is on in 2 minutes, and after getting up earlier than usual this morning, I&#8217;ll probably be going to bed right after the show.</p>
<p><b>Update:</b> I checked in IE8, and the webslice does work as expected.  A few minor differences: Webchunks pulls in external styles, like the background and colors, while IE8b1 only uses styles in the chunk itself.  Interesting bit: I&#8217;m marking up list items as entries, and IE8 is actually displaying them as a bulleted list, while Webchunks is simply showing the content.</p>
<p>So it at least <em>works</em>.  Maybe tonight or Sunday I&#8217;ll see if I can refine it a bit.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>First thoughts on IE8 Beta 1</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/05/ie8-b1/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/05/ie8-b1/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 23:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/03/05/first-thoughts-on-ie8-beta-1/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Installed the first Internet Explorer 8 beta.  Some thoughts:
I&#8217;m impressed that it can import settings from Firefox &#038; Safari.
It detected Firefox extensions and even offered to look up similar add-ons.  Unfortunately it was a big long search string with all the titles, and therefore a useless list of results for things like cameras [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/"><img class="alignright" alt="Internet Explorer." border="0"  src="http://www.hyperborea.org/images/cs/ie7_60h.png" width="60" height="60" /></a>Installed the <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/05/internet-explorer-8-beta-1-for-developers-now-available.aspx">first Internet Explorer 8 beta</a>.  Some thoughts:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m impressed that it can import settings from Firefox &#038; Safari.</p>
<p>It detected Firefox extensions and even offered to look up similar add-ons.  Unfortunately it was a big long search string with all the titles, and therefore a useless list of results for things like cameras (yeah, how am I supposed to install a $1000 Nikon D80 on my web browser?) and the hint book for <i>Splinter Cell</i>.</p>
<p>Activities: My first thought was, &#8220;hey, they&#8217;re doing stuff with microformats!&#8221;  Which is key to the underlying support (recognizing types of data and only offering relevant services, like maps for locations but not for book titles).  But on the face of it, it&#8217;s a lot more like the way <a href="http://www.flock.com/">Flock</a> integrates with various web services: Set up your blogging provider, and you can easily send stuff to your blog.  Though right now they mostly have Microsoft-hosted services.</p>
<p>&#8220;Emulate IE7&#8243; appears to involve restarting in an alternate mode right now.  I assume automatic switching is something planned for later betas.</p>
<p>Other than that, the UI seems about the same as IE7 so far.</p>
<p>It does indeed pass <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/">Acid2</a> (assuming the page isn&#8217;t swamped when you try to load it).</p>
<p>So, how else does its rendering differ?</p>
<p>Minor visual glitch: I have <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2004/06/25/creating-css-buttons/">CSS-based banners</a> on some pages (W3C validation, for instance), using spans with borders.  If it&#8217;s on the last line of a page, IE will cut off the bottom border, because it extends past the end of the page.  Other browsers show it.  I&#8217;ve gotten around this in the past by adding a blank paragraph afterward, but now IE8 collapses the empty paragraph.  That&#8217;s probably the correct thing to do, but it does mean adjusting things a bit.  Not a big problem, though, because I&#8217;ve just noticed that it handles other pages fine, <em>without</em> the <code>&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</code> workaround, which means that I&#8217;m probably already using a better solution elsewhere.</p>
<p>Several cases of re-styling UL lists seem to confuse it.  The tabs running across the top of my <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/">Flash</a> page, for instance, or the sidebar on the <a href="http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/">Alternative Browser Alliance</a>.  Others appear just as they do in other browsers (including IE7).  This will bear investigation. (<b>Edit:</b> 2 different problems; see below.)</p>
<p>Still no sign of generated content.  Beta 2? Please?  <b>Edit:</b> according to CSS3.info, it <a href="http://www.css3.info/css3-features-in-ie8/">does support generated content</a>, but images don&#8217;t work (yet?). I&#8217;d been using this, progressive-enhancement&#8211;style, to add icons for outgoing links on my Flash site.  It works in, well, everything else current.</p>
<p><b>Additionally:</b> I&#8217;m surprised to see it so early, and to see it as a public beta and not something that required an MSDN login.  And they had the sense to release a version for Windows&#160;XP!  I was half-expecting it to be a Vista-only release, which would&#8217;ve been seriously annoying.</p>
<p><b>Further updates will be added below as I think of them.</b></p>
<p>It turns out the problem on the Alternative Browser Alliance menu wasn&#8217;t related to lists as I&#8217;d thought, but to a change in the CSS parser.  For whatever reason, IE8b1 is susceptible to the <a href="http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CaioHack">Caio Hack</a> (<code>/*/*/ place code here /* comment */</code>) normally used to hide CSS rules from Netscape&nbsp;4.  At this stage I should probably be able to remove it and not worry about NS4 anymore.  (And it turns out that since I added media types to the link a while back, NS4 doesn&#8217;t even read the stylesheet in the first place!)</p>
<p>On the issue with the tabs on the Flash site, it looks like IE8b1 isn&#8217;t extending backgrounds beyond the text line on inline elements (oddly, also like NS4).  This is probably what&#8217;s really going on with the CSS buttons I mentioned above. I&#8217;ll have to check which behavior is correct, but my money would be on the Gecko, Opera and WebKit interpretation.  If so, this will probably be changed before the final release.  If not, I&#8217;ll use <code>inline-block</code> instead.  Which perhaps I should be doing anyway, except for the annoying fact that Firefox&nbsp;2 doesn&#8217;t support <code>inline-block</code> and Firefox&nbsp;3, which does, is still in beta.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve reported the Caio Hack issue to Microsoft using their &#8220;Report a Webpage Problem&#8221; tool.   The form emphasizes that you shouldn&#8217;t send anything that could identify you, so instead of reporting the problem on one of my own sites, I sent the page describing the hack.  This probably means I reported it in the wrong way. <img src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It looks like Activities isn&#8217;t actually context-sensitive yet, since it&#8217;s offering to show me a map even when I&#8217;ve selected random prose instead of an address.</p>
<p>Having messed with it more than I probably should over the last 24 hours, I&#8217;ve come to a decision: During beta&nbsp;1, any rendering problem I encounter in IE8b1 that works the way I want it to in Gecko, Opera, Safari and IE7, I&#8217;m going to assume is a bug in beta&nbsp;1.  I&#8217;ll try to narrow them down &#038; report them when I have a chance, but I won&#8217;t actually change my sites&#8217; code (except for retargeting IE-specific workarounds) until at least beta&nbsp;2.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Rumbling toward IE8</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/01/23/rumbling-toward-ie8/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/01/23/rumbling-toward-ie8/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[standards]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/01/23/rumbling-toward-ie8/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My feed reader is filling up with commentary on Microsoft&#8217;s proposal to lock web pages to specific rendering engines (funny how it doesn&#8217;t sound quite so forward thinking when you put it like that).  Rather than link to a lot of them, I&#8217;ll just link to Opera Watch&#8217;s post which collects quotes from various [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/"><img class="alignright" alt="Internet Explorer." border="0"  src="http://www.hyperborea.org/images/cs/ie7_60h.png" width="60" height="60" /></a>My feed reader is filling up with commentary on Microsoft&#8217;s <a href="http://www.alistapart.com/articles/beyonddoctype">proposal</a> to lock web pages to specific rendering engines (funny how it doesn&#8217;t sound quite so forward thinking when you put it like that).  Rather than link to a lot of them, I&#8217;ll just link to <a href="http://operawatch.com/news/2008/01/opera-mozilla-and-safari-react-to-ies-solution-for-browser-compatibility-issues.html">Opera Watch&#8217;s post</a> which collects quotes from various standards &#038; browser people. </p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2008/01/14/future-browsers/">IE7/IE6 ratio</a> on this site is still holding above 1 for the month (<a href="http://www.end6.org/">yay!</a>) at 33.6% to 28.3%. <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"><!-- byeie6 --></a></p>
<p>Also interesting: last week we got our <strong>first visit from Internet Explorer&#160;8</strong>.  Just one visit to Katie&#8217;s <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2003/05/28/even-interdimensional-law-firms-need-comp-coverage/">analysis of Wolfram &#038; Hart&#8217;s work comp liability</a>, but it loaded the relevant images, styles, etc., so it looks like an actual browser visit (and not some bot using a fake UA, like the spambot that keeps trying to post comments as Firefox&#160;9).  More importantly, it actually came from an IP address that&#8217;s assigned to Microsoft and resolves to a microsoft.com hostname, so I think it&#8217;s the real deal.</p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>IE8 will pass Acid2</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/19/ie8-acid2/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/19/ie8-acid2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Web Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Acid2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[browser]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[standards]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/19/ie8-acid2/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, this will mean nothing to most people out there, but to web developers, particularly those who use standards-based design to maximize compatibility with different browsers, this is monumental.
An internal build of Internet Explorer 8 has passed Acid2.
The Acid2 test was released in April 2005 to test a number of pieces of the HTML and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/"><img class="alignright" alt="Internet Explorer." border="0"  src="http://www.hyperborea.org/images/cs/ie7_60h.png" width="60" height="60" /></a>Okay, this will mean nothing to most people out there, but to web developers, particularly those who use standards-based design to maximize compatibility with different browsers, this is <strong>monumental</strong>.</p>
<p>An internal build of <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/12/19/internet-explorer-8-and-acid2-a-milestone.aspx">Internet Explorer 8 has passed Acid2</a>.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/">Acid2 test</a> was released in April 2005 to test a number of pieces of the HTML and CSS standards that, at the time, no modern browser handled according to spec.  The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2">purpose of the test</a> was to prod browser developers into improving their products, and to do so consistently, so that developers would have more tools available for cross-browser sites.</p>
<p>At the time, Microsoft dismissed its its importance entirely.  Even though they were working on rendering improvements for IE7, they stated that Acid2 was not one of their goals.  Meanwhile Opera and Firefox were both in the wrong phase of their development cycles to make sweeping changes, so Safari jumped on it and became the first browser to pass. (Every once in a while I see someone say Opera was the first, and I have to wonder where they were.)  Opera followed with version 9, and the Firefox 3 betas pass it as well.</p>
<p>With Gecko (Firefox), WebKit (Safari), Opera and IE accounting for the four biggest web browsers and the most popular minor browsers (Flock, Camino, Shiira, etc., plus IE shells like Maxthon), this shows <strong>unprecedented convergence</strong> among clients.  It will be much easier to develop a cross-browser website that runs on IE8, Firefox 3, Opera 9+ and Safari 3+.</p>
<p>There are, of course, <em>many</em> aspects of the specs that aren&#8217;t covered by Acid2.  And there are emerging standards like HTML5 and CSS3.  And there are plenty of other bugs, quirks, and extensions among various browsers (IE&#8217;s bizarre concept of <a href="http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html">having layout</a>, for instance, trips up all kinds of <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/02/11/redesign/">weird issues</a>).  And then there&#8217;s waiting for IE8 to be released, and moving people up from IE7, not to mention all the people we <a href="http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/04/the-tipping-point/">still have to move up from IE6</a>.  Full benefit is probably at least 3 or 4 years away.  *sigh*</p>
<p><small>(<a href="http://www.webstandards.org/2007/12/19/ie8-passes-acid2-test-2/">via WaSP Buzz</a>)</small></p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Tipping Point?</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/04/the-tipping-point/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/04/the-tipping-point/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Browsers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE6]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE7]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/12/04/the-tipping-point/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know global statistics still show IE7 only taking up 25%&#8211;35% of overall Internet Explorer usage, but stats on this site show a slightly different story (usually skewed toward the crowd more likely to install/upgrade a browser).  For the first three days of December, I&#8217;m seeing more IE7 users than IE6.
Not by a lot. [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/"><img class="alignright" alt="Internet Explorer." border="0"  src="http://www.hyperborea.org/images/cs/ie7_60h.png" width="60" height="60" /></a>I know global statistics still show IE7 only taking up 25%&#8211;35% of overall Internet Explorer usage, but stats on this site show a slightly different story (usually skewed toward the crowd more likely to install/upgrade a browser).  For the first three days of December, I&#8217;m seeing <strong>more IE7 users than IE6</strong>.</p>
<p>Not by a lot.  IE7 has 32.7% and IE6 has 30.3% of the total.  And I expect it&#8217;ll level out or even reverse as stats from a regular work week filter in.  But still, something has finally surpassed that moldering, zombified, shambling heap of a web browser.</p>
<p>Next step: getting <a href="http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&#038;id=880&#038;t=1">Firefox&#8217;s</a> numbers (currently 26.8%, also above the global levels) over IE6.</p>
<p>Come on, <a href="http://www.css3.info/kill-ie6-to-let-css3-live/">let&#8217;s put a stake in this relic</a>.  It&#8217;s done.</p>
<p><b>Update (Thursday):</b> And now Microsoft is <em>finally</em> <a href="http://www.molly.com/2007/12/05/conversation-with-bill-gates-about-ie8-and-microsoft-transparency/">starting to talk</a> about <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/12/05/internet-explorer-8.aspx">IE8</a>&#8230;even if it is just to say they&#8217;ve picked out a name.  Whee. <img src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif' alt=':-|' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for the stats, the gap has closed somewhat in the last 2 days, with IE7 at 31.6% and IE6 at 31.2%.  This is definitely looking like a home/office split.  I&#8217;m going to have to write a script sometime to do a daily breakdown of browser versions and see if this actually fits.</p>
<p><b>Update (Saturday):</b> Yes, IE6 has caught up.  32.2% to 31.1%.  *sigh*  It turns out I was just seeing a local maximum.  <img src='http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':sad:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<hr /><small>Copyright &copy; 2009 Kelson Vibber and/or Katherine Foreman.<br /> This feed is for personal, non-commercial use only. <br /> The use of this feed on other websites breaches copyright. Permission granted to Planet Antispam and LiveJournal syndication feed ksquaredramblin.  If this content is not in your news reader or one of the sites listed above, it makes the page you are viewing an infringement of the copyright. (Digital Fingerprint: bc1c453a98ff79bab5c4fca2d890469d (38.107.191.91) )</small> <a href="http://www.hudson-family.co.uk/extremecorticate.php?source=673"></a>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Unlikely Partnership</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/01/31/unlikely-partnership/</link>
		<comments>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/01/31/unlikely-partnership/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Web]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[IE8]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Microsoft]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[standards]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2007/01/31/unlikely-partnership/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#8217;s a surprise: web standardista extraordinaire Molly Holzschlag is now working with Microsoft to promote web standards within the organization.
Improving interoperability, especially at high-profile services like many of Microsoft&#8217;s, is critical to the future of the web.  I can only hope that the emphasis on standards will feed into the design goals for Internet [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a surprise: web standardista extraordinaire <a href="http://molly.com/">Molly Holzschlag</a> is now <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/01/30/working-together-for-a-better-web.aspx" title="Working Together For a Better Web">working with Microsoft</a> to promote web standards within the organization.</p>
<p>Improving interoperability, especially at high-profile services like many of Microsoft&#8217;s, is critical to the future of the web.  I can only hope that the emphasis on standards will feed into the design goals for Internet Explorer&nbsp;8&#8212;and that IE8 will be released before Windows XP <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/jan07/01-24ExtendedSupportWindowsMA.mspx">drops from mainstream to extended support</a> in 2009.</p>
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