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	<title>Comments on: What Lies &#8220;Beneath You&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Kelson</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/2002/10/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2002 05:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2002/10/02/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-7</guid>
		<description>Re: Dawn&#039;s blood-portal-power - location and time both seemed to be critical - at least that was my impression of why Glory had her minions building the tower - and wasn&#039;t there some sort of minimal ceremony involved?

I do wonder about the timeline, though.  Through most of 5th season I had the impression that &quot;The Beast&quot; had been searching for the Key for centuries, and the monks had been guarding it for as long.  Then we find out that Glory and Ben were bound together, and then that he aged normally, so she&#039;d only been on Earth for a couple of decades - and the whole reason she wanted the Key was to get back to her own dimension.

Anyway, I&#039;ve seen nothing to suggest that Dawn is no longer the Key, but then over the past season she&#039;s seemed to be completely human.  I keep wondering how Spike sees her these days, although during that brief time in her living room, he was holding his thoughts together pretty well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Dawn&#8217;s blood-portal-power &#8211; location and time both seemed to be critical &#8211; at least that was my impression of why Glory had her minions building the tower &#8211; and wasn&#8217;t there some sort of minimal ceremony involved?</p>
<p>I do wonder about the timeline, though.  Through most of 5th season I had the impression that &#8220;The Beast&#8221; had been searching for the Key for centuries, and the monks had been guarding it for as long.  Then we find out that Glory and Ben were bound together, and then that he aged normally, so she&#8217;d only been on Earth for a couple of decades &#8211; and the whole reason she wanted the Key was to get back to her own dimension.</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ve seen nothing to suggest that Dawn is no longer the Key, but then over the past season she&#8217;s seemed to be completely human.  I keep wondering how Spike sees her these days, although during that brief time in her living room, he was holding his thoughts together pretty well.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/2002/10/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2002/10/02/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Good points.  Just a few follow-up thoughts:

1-1.  There are undoubtedly many who don&#039;t know Buffy Summers as the Slayer.  Sure, there are some, but most things evil only refer to her by her title.  That has to make for confusing paperwork.

2-1.  Possibly.  Especially if they know something Buffy should learn.

3.  Perhaps they have been working on it for some time and the rules of succession are complex enough to have prevented it until now.  Or maybe it could only be done with the planets in particular alignment and an olympic swimming pool full of potential Slayer blood.

4.  It devours Buffy from beneath.  My money is on Spike drinking her blood, but it may be that, as prophecies tend to, there&#039;s more than one meaning here.

1-2.  Even through Roseanne Barr?  And the Olsen twins?

2-2.  Yay!  One for six!

It may well be that Dawn&#039;s blood&#039;s power is gone, or effectively useless.  She may have only been designed for the one portal, or Buffy&#039;s death could have permanently cancelled her effect, or the odds may be astronomically unreachable that she&#039;ll coincidentally bleed in the right place at the right time (the other portal had to be opened at a particular time, after all).

It would certainly make things sticky, though, and that&#039;s one of Joss&#039; favorite textures.  I for one wouldn&#039;t mind half a season on the other side of the hell mouth, if it was done well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points.  Just a few follow-up thoughts:</p>
<p>1-1.  There are undoubtedly many who don&#8217;t know Buffy Summers as the Slayer.  Sure, there are some, but most things evil only refer to her by her title.  That has to make for confusing paperwork.</p>
<p>2-1.  Possibly.  Especially if they know something Buffy should learn.</p>
<p>3.  Perhaps they have been working on it for some time and the rules of succession are complex enough to have prevented it until now.  Or maybe it could only be done with the planets in particular alignment and an olympic swimming pool full of potential Slayer blood.</p>
<p>4.  It devours Buffy from beneath.  My money is on Spike drinking her blood, but it may be that, as prophecies tend to, there&#8217;s more than one meaning here.</p>
<p>1-2.  Even through Roseanne Barr?  And the Olsen twins?</p>
<p>2-2.  Yay!  One for six!</p>
<p>It may well be that Dawn&#8217;s blood&#8217;s power is gone, or effectively useless.  She may have only been designed for the one portal, or Buffy&#8217;s death could have permanently cancelled her effect, or the odds may be astronomically unreachable that she&#8217;ll coincidentally bleed in the right place at the right time (the other portal had to be opened at a particular time, after all).</p>
<p>It would certainly make things sticky, though, and that&#8217;s one of Joss&#8217; favorite textures.  I for one wouldn&#8217;t mind half a season on the other side of the hell mouth, if it was done well.</p>
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		<title>By: Stacy</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/2002/10/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Oct 2002 23:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2002/10/02/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Hmmm... interesting points.

1-1.  Since the Willow *incident*, my guess is that even the inept old watchers, let alone the MIH, know that Buffy is alive.  I&#039;m guessing anything with magical powers knows that although Buffy defeated a god, she couldn&#039;t kick her best friend&#039;s butt.

2-1. Maybe, but these girls seem to be pretty much little slayers in training.  It would seem more like they were trying to cut support out from underneath the existing slayer before the big bad comes.

3. Killing a slayer begets another slayer. It&#039;s pointless to kill one, unless you have the ball in your court to pick the next one. Ideally, a very serious coven of warlocks could work on this for years, but why now?

4. Maybe the MIH (men in hoods)  need her, but the girls seem to have a connection with Buffy.  Why are the girls trying to warn her that it devours from beneath when they very clearly are getting attacked from the front and side?

1-2. Again, fininte number of slayers? The first slayer spirit suggests that as long as there are women, she can continue to fight vampires through them.  Wreck their lives, endanger their friends...but fight evil all the same.

2-2. Now here&#039;s a theory. Slayer blood certainly brought old Angel back from the land of the poisoned semi-conscious. What could it do to restore a banished demon. 

I think that Dawn&#039;s powers to open portals have pretty much gone the way of the dodo. If they hadn&#039;t, training her to be a semi-slayer might get really sticky in the episodes to come.

Now, time for my own little poser... how did Spike get out of the basement and how did he get a haircut? How much of what we saw was reality and how much the delusions of a vampire who really wants out of the basement. (Argue all you want, but Xander didn&#039;t get the girl and no one set Spike on fire.)

I think Katie&#039;s right that both James and SMG really did well in that last scene. The whole Stoned Buffy act has finally come to an end and we&#039;re getting to see her more in charge and happy. Did you see the smile on her face when she asked if she could give detention?

Yay.

Angel...double YAY!

Whew, what a Sunday. Someone get that kid a haircut. Word to Fred who even shocked Gunn with her homeboy ways. Wes remains my favorite character of all time, having come so far from Mr. Giles Wannabe to just as messed up as any ex-Sunnydale resident around. Banging the girl from Wolfram and Heart and keeping Justine chained in the closet. Hell that&#039;s even a long way from when Faith tortured him. 

What will bring Cordelia back? And who the #*($&amp;#(*$&amp; is Fluffy? Lorne, Lorne, Lorne... why such the mystery? I don&#039;t think he hates Connor&#039;s haircut as much as I do.

Back to the whole Spike/Buffy guilt scenario, in the Jossverse, guilt criples generations of people.  After all it was guilt that motivated Spike to get a soul. Guilt even gets Dawn some slayer training time. I can imagine this will only get more twisted.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; interesting points.</p>
<p>1-1.  Since the Willow *incident*, my guess is that even the inept old watchers, let alone the MIH, know that Buffy is alive.  I&#8217;m guessing anything with magical powers knows that although Buffy defeated a god, she couldn&#8217;t kick her best friend&#8217;s butt.</p>
<p>2-1. Maybe, but these girls seem to be pretty much little slayers in training.  It would seem more like they were trying to cut support out from underneath the existing slayer before the big bad comes.</p>
<p>3. Killing a slayer begets another slayer. It&#8217;s pointless to kill one, unless you have the ball in your court to pick the next one. Ideally, a very serious coven of warlocks could work on this for years, but why now?</p>
<p>4. Maybe the MIH (men in hoods)  need her, but the girls seem to have a connection with Buffy.  Why are the girls trying to warn her that it devours from beneath when they very clearly are getting attacked from the front and side?</p>
<p>1-2. Again, fininte number of slayers? The first slayer spirit suggests that as long as there are women, she can continue to fight vampires through them.  Wreck their lives, endanger their friends&#8230;but fight evil all the same.</p>
<p>2-2. Now here&#8217;s a theory. Slayer blood certainly brought old Angel back from the land of the poisoned semi-conscious. What could it do to restore a banished demon. </p>
<p>I think that Dawn&#8217;s powers to open portals have pretty much gone the way of the dodo. If they hadn&#8217;t, training her to be a semi-slayer might get really sticky in the episodes to come.</p>
<p>Now, time for my own little poser&#8230; how did Spike get out of the basement and how did he get a haircut? How much of what we saw was reality and how much the delusions of a vampire who really wants out of the basement. (Argue all you want, but Xander didn&#8217;t get the girl and no one set Spike on fire.)</p>
<p>I think Katie&#8217;s right that both James and SMG really did well in that last scene. The whole Stoned Buffy act has finally come to an end and we&#8217;re getting to see her more in charge and happy. Did you see the smile on her face when she asked if she could give detention?</p>
<p>Yay.</p>
<p>Angel&#8230;double YAY!</p>
<p>Whew, what a Sunday. Someone get that kid a haircut. Word to Fred who even shocked Gunn with her homeboy ways. Wes remains my favorite character of all time, having come so far from Mr. Giles Wannabe to just as messed up as any ex-Sunnydale resident around. Banging the girl from Wolfram and Heart and keeping Justine chained in the closet. Hell that&#8217;s even a long way from when Faith tortured him. </p>
<p>What will bring Cordelia back? And who the #*($&amp;#(*$&amp; is Fluffy? Lorne, Lorne, Lorne&#8230; why such the mystery? I don&#8217;t think he hates Connor&#8217;s haircut as much as I do.</p>
<p>Back to the whole Spike/Buffy guilt scenario, in the Jossverse, guilt criples generations of people.  After all it was guilt that motivated Spike to get a soul. Guilt even gets Dawn some slayer training time. I can imagine this will only get more twisted.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/2002/10/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Oct 2002 07:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/archives/2002/10/02/what-lies-beneath-you/#comment-3</guid>
		<description>I had the same thought that the targeted women were potential slayers.  I can think of a number of reasons to explain why they&#039;re not going after Buffy just yet:

1) They don&#039;t know she died already, and they believe killing her would activate the next slayer&#039;s power, making her a harder target.

2)  They may be able to identify potential slayers but lack the ability to distinguish between potential and actual.

3)  Buffy&#039;s second death may have triggered a second lineage, they&#039;re tracing it now, and they either don&#039;t know she&#039;s back from the dead, they simply haven&#039;t gotten to her yet, or they&#039;re not prepared to set off a third lineage.

4)  They need her.

The next question is, assuming these are slayers or pre-slayers, what are they accomplishing?  Possible theories:

1)  There are a finite number of potential slayers alive.  If they can kill them all, there will be nobody to pass the power to, and it will evaporate, or go up for grabs.

2)  They&#039;re collecting a massive supply of slayer blood.  Who knows what they can do with it.  Can slayer blood open portals?  It&#039;s the same as the key&#039;s blood, which can.  Speaking of that, if Dawn bleeds in the principal&#039;s office, does the hellmouth open until she or Buffy dies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the same thought that the targeted women were potential slayers.  I can think of a number of reasons to explain why they&#8217;re not going after Buffy just yet:</p>
<p>1) They don&#8217;t know she died already, and they believe killing her would activate the next slayer&#8217;s power, making her a harder target.</p>
<p>2)  They may be able to identify potential slayers but lack the ability to distinguish between potential and actual.</p>
<p>3)  Buffy&#8217;s second death may have triggered a second lineage, they&#8217;re tracing it now, and they either don&#8217;t know she&#8217;s back from the dead, they simply haven&#8217;t gotten to her yet, or they&#8217;re not prepared to set off a third lineage.</p>
<p>4)  They need her.</p>
<p>The next question is, assuming these are slayers or pre-slayers, what are they accomplishing?  Possible theories:</p>
<p>1)  There are a finite number of potential slayers alive.  If they can kill them all, there will be nobody to pass the power to, and it will evaporate, or go up for grabs.</p>
<p>2)  They&#8217;re collecting a massive supply of slayer blood.  Who knows what they can do with it.  Can slayer blood open portals?  It&#8217;s the same as the key&#8217;s blood, which can.  Speaking of that, if Dawn bleeds in the principal&#8217;s office, does the hellmouth open until she or Buffy dies?</p>
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